My intags problems and questions

I just put together a “my intag overlay” for a particularly gnarly web app. If I just click one of the tags I don’t have any problem. However, if I say “Drag X to Y”, the Drag executes but then the intag overlay shuts off and I need to say “show my intags” again to get the overlay back. That’s a bummer so is there something that can be done to fix it?

Number two, where is the configuration stored for the my overlays? I would like to use the same overlay on multiple computers and I could just move the configuration file around

Phil Schaadt

thanks that works

Just as I did not qualify for “Quantum Physics for Dummies” – I did not have a sufficient mathematics background, this post went over my head big time. To solve the quantum physics problems I am reading three books which are on a much more elementary level.

What do I need to read to understand this post?




Don’t worry about it. Phil understands XML coding and how to transfer custom overlays between computers as long as he follows Ron’s explanation.

Until or unless you need help with “My InTags” when creating overlays, that’s something that we can do one-on-one. You don’t need to understand at this time.

Thanks again, Chucker,

I was just worried there was something everyone else knew that I didn’t. Not that I’m paranoid or anything.


There seems to be some kind of subtle incompatibility between KnowBrainer and VoiceComputer. Even when I disable everything in VoiceComputer except the intags overlay commands I will start to get unexplained slowdowns or glitches after a half hour so of use.

Most of what I been using KnowBrainer for are scripts for navigating to submenus on a difficult web app. Intag technology isn’t very practical for that usage but for everything else and especially dragging items across a web app that intag technology has become critical for my daily workflow.

Does anybody have any specific hints?

The new version of KnowBrainer is coming out shortly and that should have the capability of just turning off commands. I plan to turn off everything except those commands that I use regularly

Phil Schaadt

Why can't you just make a Dragon script to navigate to the submenus?

Post the script here or email it to me and maybe we can help.

You say that "Intag technology isn't very practical for that usage"

The My Intags technology is very versatile. Combining My Intags with scripting has let me create some very cool macros.

would you please post a sample script combining custom intags to navigate to pop up sub menus.

One other problem I have using custom intags is that when I make changes to the custom overlay, all the numbers above that change re sequence so it is hard to memorize the most commonly used intag numbers

My problem is I do not want three or four deep custom intag overlays If need to navigate to one of three choices three/four or five menus down after the top level as well as enter boilerplate text from lists in fields along the way. Absolute mouse position scripting with easy to edit lists seems work for me but I’m always open to finding a better way.

I could convert all my 100 or so knowbrainer mouse position scripts to DNS (I built them out Beta testing KB2015).

However if there are known incompatibilities with KnowBrainer that can be addressed by deleting commands I’d like to know about them

Phil Schaadt

[QUOTE=phils] would you please post a sample script combining custom intags to navigate to pop up sub menus.

You can create all the Intags you need to on an Overlay (or you could create multiple Overlays)
And then drill through as many points as you wish.
One advantage of using Overlays instead of Scripts is that you can see the clickable points with an overlay so if something's changed, you'll immediately see it.
Other advantages are that you can alternative commands using the same overlay(s) and that you can use the overlay to step through menus.

Paste this into global1.xml

(it can also go into an application specific xml file.)

One other problem I have using custom intags is that when I make changes to the custom overlay, all the numbers above that change re sequence so it is hard to memorize the most commonly used intag numbers

Understood. We can change this so that the numbers stay the same when you delete an Intag. We need to think of some clear commands that would give users an option to change the existing numbers or not.

> My problem is I do not want three or four deep custom intag overlays

I don't think that you'd need more than one Overlay for each drillable menu. But, you've been creating scripts with absolute mouse positioning so I'd probably be easy to stay with what you know.

>However if there are known incompatibilities with KnowBrainer that can be addressed by
> deleting commands I'd like to know about them

Both KnowBrainer and VoiceComputer have had a lot of upgrades. It would be very difficult to test for incompatibilities and maybe impossible to fix any problems we found. And, it would be far better to just run Dragon and VoiceComputer or KnowBrainer, then trying to run all three problems

> I could convert all my 100 or so knowbrainer mouse position scripts to DNS (I built them
> out Beta testing KB2015).

That might be your best option. Post one of your commands on this forum and we could see if there's an easy way to convert them. (Hint: creating macros in Microsoft Word are great for conversion projects like this.)

I’ll try creating the overlay mouse action commands as that seems to be pretty much what I want. Since most of the KnowBrainer commands map to one of my overlay commands that should be pretty straightforward.

One thing I don’t understand from looking at the sample script what happens if I have more than one Custom Overlay? How do I associate command with correct overlay?

Phil Schaadt

<div>you can use the mimic command</div><div><div>     <mimic phrase="show overlay two" /></div><div><br></div><div>But, a better option is to use the <span style="line-height: 16.8px;">customoverlay action command</span></div><div><br></div><div>          <customoverlay action="display" number="1" /></div><div>   <wait ms="500" /></div><div>       <overlaymouseaction action="doubleclick" numbers="2"  stayopen="true"  /> </div><div>      <wait ms="500" /></div><div>      <customoverlay action="next" /></div><div>      <wait ms="500" /></div><div>          <customoverlay action="display" number="3" /></div><div>      <wait ms="500" /></div><div>      <overlaymouseaction action="rightclick" numbers="1" stayopen="true" /></div></div>

Thanks Ron I’ll have to give this a try next week.

I also have a problem where after using a custom overlay to do a bunch of dragging, certain numbers will stop working. If I just say “click” and the number nothing happened. But if I say"double-click"and the same number that tag is successfully double-clicked. The number right before it and the number right after it almost always work

Closing the custom overlay and reopening the custom overlay seems to bring back the functionality

Phil Schaadt


One observation that a couple of questions:

1. In the Dragon Options dialog do you have Require" Click" to select menus and Require "Click to select buttons and other controls enabled? If so, do you have a reason for doing this? The reason that I ask these questions is because you can always say “Click” even if these options are not selected, and I choose to opt out of these two options precisely because I don’t want to have to say “click”. It isn’t really necessary unless you have an application it’s particularly gnarly in this regard.
2. How many drags and drops are you performing? I tried it with the hundred drags and drops and couldn’t duplicate your problem.
3. Does the same problem occur, without the options in #1 above enabled, if you just say the number that isn’t working?

Also, where did you implement Ron suggestion above? Note that there are two locations where you should make this change (i.e., "stayopen=“true”) to the drag commands for overlays.

I will try removing require click and see what happens. cI just checked and the stay open equals true is set in both XML config documents in both locations

This morning I thought happen after about a dozen drags and usually I would say it’s in the dozens

Since I don’t know the underlying programming for Voice Computer this is a complete guess but the application is a very complicated web app and there may be some subtle interaction.

I will report back later today

Phil Schaadt

I’m just going to wait for the next version of VoiceComputer. I have fiddled around and have not been able to find the cause but with VoiceComputer installed on three machines, I never have a problem on one machine which is my main overclocked Tower workstation. I have two Lenovo WS workstation laptops that are identical with respect to hardware and the BIOS. All of the machines are Windows 7 and all of them have SSDs

On one Lenovo, certain numbers, like 21, don’t work even after a restart on the custom overlay. On the other Lenovo the problem happens after moving 15 to 20 emails. I’ve done this testing without SpeechStart+ or KnowBrainer running at the same time I still have the problem on both IE and Firefox.

It may be an artifact of moving the configuration file for the custom overlay’s from my main workstation to the Lenovo machines.

I’ll just start fresh next week since I want to build out scripting like functionality in the new Voice Computer.

Custom overlays are a great assistive technology. My manual therapy PT has actually noticed less damage in my hands and shoulders between treatments since I began using the custom overlay’s to handle my voicemail

Phil Schaadt

Glad that the Custom overlays are helping you! I also think that "Custom overlays are a great assistive technology". I think that they were a great invention of our programmer, Evan Katsuranis.

>On one Lenovo, certain numbers, like 21, don't work even

This is probably a minor problem. Dragon (and WSR) have problems with certain numbers for some people.

We use spoken forms for numbers in our command lists. You just need to edit the command list to add different spoken forms for numbers that you have problems with.

For example, the spoken form for 21 is "twenty one". The syntax:

21twenty one

add a second spoken form, "twentyone"


To do this, go to the 1to50ad list
in the showCustomOverlayActive.xml file for overlays
and add the second spoken form.
(in C:ProgramDataVoiceTeachVoiceComputerCommandsCustom)
21twenty one

Save the file and let me know if this fixes your problem.
You can add additional spoken forms to any words that you're having problems with.

Similarly, if certain numbers are not correctly recognized when you're using Intags, you can edit the 1to300cf list in the displaynumbers.xml file.

One last thing!
After you edit these files you need to copy the files you edited from


over the existing files in:
C:Program Files (x86)VoiceTeachVoiceComputerhelpVC_FilesCustom_files

This second location contains the 'master' files. Whenever you configure VoiceComputer, the existing files in


are deleted and replaced with the files in

C:Program Files (x86)VoiceTeachVoiceComputerhelpVC_FilesCustom_files

I’m pretty sure that there’s something other than
misrecognition happening. I have the Results Box set for never close and
on the custom overlay, where I’m having the problems, here are the exact
three contents of the results box:

click twenty one
double click twenty one
twenty one

now with those command recognitions here is what happens:
click twenty one – – nothing happens
double click twenty one – – that intag is clicked twice
twenty one – – nothing happens

the content of the XML file is:21twenty one

use this identical file showcustomoverlay.XML and I cut and pasted it
into all of the locations across all three of my installations.

must be some kind of subtle misconfiguration but I’m just going to wait
to see whether with the new version, after I uninstall and reinstall, plus apply the XML changes, works the same across all three machines.

Ron, I understand you may provide me a special version with extra logging and I will be happy to try that.

Thanks for your help.

Phil Schaadt
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cThere seems to be some kind of conflict between Microsoft Word and Internet Explorer. I’ll have to do some more research to see if this happens without my custom overlay open and/or without intags but it seems that after a short time I can no longer dictate into the Internet Explorer web app even though there is clearly the green checkbox in the DragonBar
if I quit Microsoft Word the green checkbox in the DragonBar doesn’t change with Internet Explorer but all of a sudden I can dictate into Internet Explorer again.

Is this a known problem?

Phil Schaadt

Is there a way to set your custom intags to require “click” in order to open intag number.
Phil Schaadt