Initial issues with VP and DNS

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"I've just installed Dragon NaturallySpeaking premium 11.00.200.206 and the latest version of VP on my computer. This is my first time using DNS and VP. I have about six months’ worth of experience with WSR. I'm running Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit on a Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU P8700 @ 2.53GHz  processor with 4 GB of second-generation RAM.</p><p>Dictation of text is better than WSR! Navigation within a document works fine. Resizing windows and moving them about seems to be working. But I'm having some other problems which I've listed below. When I first installed VP none of the commands would work. When I configured VP without the bug fix most of the commands were then understood. I have not yet tried reinstallation of either program. Some issues/annoyances are quite minor and others are a major headache. Any help would be appreciated!"</p><p>RJ,</p><p>Sorry to delay responding to your post. You put a lot of time and effort into it and we needed some time to go through your concerns and/or verify your findings.</p><p>First, the original release version of DNS 11 Premium was 11.00.200.049. Somewhere along the line Nuance discovered a problem with that release and subsequently issued a new release (11.00.200.206). There was never any technote or explanation on what was changed or fixed in this letter release. However, anyone currently purchasing DNS 11.0 Premium is being shipped this updated version. One of the things that changed in this version was the elimination of the "bug issue" that required double slashes (//) in our XML commands. As a result, and your version of DNS 11.0 Premium is the only version and/or flavor of DNS in which this change was made, our XML commands do not require the double slashes (//). Therefore, we have an option to turn this correction off in the "configure VoicePower" dialog, which you have apparently found and configured. While we can't be certain that this will carry over into DNS 11.5 when the free update becomes available, you will simply have to check it. If it works with your current configuration of VoicePower, then there's no need to go back to the bug fix setting. However, we do not have a copy of DNS 11.5 Premium at this point, so we cannot test it. Therefore, we are waiting for VoicePower users of DNS 11.5 Premium to tell us whether or not they have to set this option in the "configure VoicePower" settings. The only thing that I can tell you at this point is that it appears that it doesn't matter which setting is selected in DNS 11.5 Professional. VoicePower seems to work either way for this version. However, we only have the Professional version to work with at this time.</p><p>"I thought about waiting to post this because I’ve only been playing with these programs for a couple days. However, I don’t think that all my problems have to do with operator error (or at least I hope not). J"</p><p>I'm sure that some of the problems you have been experiencing are not operator errors. However, keep in mind that just as with Dragon NaturallySpeaking and Windows Speech Recognition (WSR), commands must be spoken verbatim exactly the way they are worded. That is, you can't say a VoicePower command just any old way you would like because VoicePower only responds to the precise command name. Just as with DNS, the preciseness of speaking commands avoids misrecognizing one command for another, as well as establishing the reliability of commands.</p><p>"VP and DNS 11 Problems/Annoyances</p><p>VP <br>I noticed that in the tutorials the "play" icon seemed to be missing sometimes, and therefore I could not watch the demos. I think I was able to watch the demos in Show Demonstrations, however."</p><p>Your statement is not clear enough for us to understand exactly what you mean by "… in the tutorials the 'play' icon seemed to be missing sometimes…" There are two distinctions here. There are demos and then there are tutorials. They function differently. Therefore, in ordered for us to understand exactly what you are referring to specifically so that we can check it, you need to give us an example. That is, what play icon is missing from where? Remember, we can only rely on what you tell us. We can't see your screen, nor can we intuitively assess what you mean. When posting questions for support or explanation, you need to explain them as if you were explaining the Mona Lisa to a blind person. Otherwise, trying to answer your questions is like trying to find a black cat in a dark room.</p><p>"Show Select That Demo is shown twice in Show Demonstrations."</p><p>We are aware of this. It doesn't dramatically affect anything in VoicePower. It's just an oversight which is easily corrected and we will do so in a future release. Nevertheless, we thank you for pointing it out because it means that you're taking an in-depth look at VoicePower, which is what we want all of our users to do. Finding these little mistakes in a program as comprehensive as VoicePower is difficult at times. So, your help and your making us aware of these issues is critical to fixing bugs and correcting issues like this.</p><p>"Doesn’t seem to work in Firefox 5.0 or Internet Explorer 9."</p><p>First, Mozilla changes versions of Firefox about as frequently as parents change their infants diapers. The VoicePower specific commands for Firefox should work fine in versions 3.XX and 4. However, Firefox 5.0 is too new. We will fix and update these in the future release, but this takes time and effort. Even Nuance is loathe to support Firefox. However, that being said, what we tried to do in VoicePower was to create a single commands to accomplish multiple selections or execute multiple options. Because Mozilla does not like to conform to Microsoft's standards for accessibility, this makes it difficult because we have to work around Firefox's continual messing around with these features. However, some of the commands do work. We just have to test out which ones don't and make appropriate fixes for those. Regardless, thank you again for bringing this to our attention.</p><p>Second, as far as IE 9 is concerned, DNS 11.0 actually works with the exact same Dragon commands as for IE 8, but does not yet fully support IE 9. That won't come until DNS 11.5 is released (free update). What this means is that you won't see any Natural Language Commands for Internet Explorer in your Command Browser for DNS 11.0. Nevertheless, IE 9 is not essentially significantly different run IE 8 in terms of the underlying code. That is, what works with IE 8 also works with IE9, as far as Dragon NaturallySpeaking 11 itself is concerned. However, between IE 7 and IE 8, Microsoft Made some changes to the underlying menu structure that make some of the VoicePower commands either not execute or not execute completely. Again, as with Firefox this is something that we have to go through command by command and rebuild the VoicePower command structure for IE 9. Nevertheless, many of the commands do work. What has changed between IE 7 and IE 8/IE 9 is that Microsoft Changed the submenu access and a few other accessibility issues that don't allow you to go to secondary menu options in one command the way we have a currently set up. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if Windows Speech Recognition (WSR) handles IE 9 better. After all, it would make much sense for Microsoft not to establish a better relationship between two of its products. Unfortunately, Active Accessibility [Microsoft Active Accessibility (MSAA)] is also Microsoft code. Even so, I would expect that VoicePower running under Windows Speech Recognition (WSR) wouldn't have the same basic problem. Again, thank you for bringing this to our attention. We will address this in a future release.</p><p>"Can't figure out how to display VoicePower Help after it has been minimized to the taskbar without manually clicking on it. Okay, I figured it out but it wasn't elegant. I had to say "switch to voice power help", "restore window" or "maximize window" and then say "resize window". It seems to me that simply saying "switch to voice power help" should put the window right back up where it was rather th
an needing two additional commands."</p><p>This is actually a good point and we'll take it under consideration. In the meantime, when ever the VoicePower help window is minimized, if you notice in the titlebar that the window name is VT - VoicePower… When using the "switch to" commands, Windows relies on the information in the titlebar as shown on the taskbar. While we can create a command that will do this automatically, for the time being simply say "Switch to VT". Since all VoicePower help screens will maximize using this command, all you have to do is to make sure that Dragon recognizes the command properly. You must say it exactly the way I put it in quotes speaking the letters and not using the phonetic alphabet (i.e., alpha, bravo, etc.). You can't say "switch to victor tango", you must say the letters "VT". This should work, but let us know if you're having any problems with using that command. The bottom line is that it isn't just VoicePower it's Windows as well and the way Windows identifies items in the taskbar. Sometimes when using this command, saying "VT" can be misrecognized as  "BT". This is just a matter of training Dragon to recognize those letters.</p><p>Note also that you can close any VoicePower help window by simply saying "close VoicePower window" without having to ensure that the focus is on the VoicePower help window. In addition, if you know the name of the help window that you want displayed, you can display any VoicePower help window by simply saying "Show <VoicePower help window name>". VoicePower will not display multiple VoicePower help pages. If you have, for instance, the Main Menu open and you say "Show correction lesson", VoicePower will replace the Main Menu help window with the Correction Lesson help window. You can always go back by saying "show go back", which will take you back to the previous VoicePower help window that was open prior to opening a new one. One of the things that takes getting used to in VoicePower is that there are times when you can only say things one way and there are times when you can use some of the built-in VoicePower help commands to switch to other Windows or go back to a previous window. One final point is that, in general, any command in any VoicePower help window that begins with "Show" can be executed by simply saying what you see. In some cases these commands are identified in dark red. In the Main Menu they are all identified as white. Those commands and items listed in the VoicePower help that are italicized can only be spoken. Those items listed in the VoicePower help that are not italicized can be either spoken or open using the mouse.</p><p>Let us know if you have any problems with any of the above suggestions.</p><p>"The "resize window" command leaves the resized windows with extra space between them and the taskbar as well as a little bit of space between them and the DNS bar at the top of the screen. This seems like a waste of space on my screen. I'm guessing the reason for this is so the DNS bar can be docked above or below, but it's still less than ideal. I think I read somewhere that this can actually be adjusted, but right now I have bigger fish to fry."</p><p>The "resize window" command only works relative to the VoicePower help Windows. We live a little bit of real estate (very small) at the top of the VoicePower help windows. When you say "resize window, it realigns the application window and the VoicePower help window, which is, again, the only place that this command works anyway. In other words, the application window is resized to be perfectly realigns with the VoicePower help window. The amount of real estate lost in this case is really insignificant. However, we'll take a look at it and see if it makes sense the way that Windows positions and the lines application Windows and see if there are any drawbacks. Basically, we have never had any user of VoicePower be concerned about this issue so we haven't considered it up to this point.</p><p>"I find it very difficult to navigate the voice power interface with my voice. I keep having to revert to using a mouse.[I'm not having as much trouble now as I was previously, so maybe I’m getting better at it.]"</p><p>As I've already explained, navigating the VoicePower interface requires that you say what you see in terms of either the icons or in the help Windows relative to the specific commands associated with such. For example, in the main menu underneath each icon is the command that opens that particular VoicePower help window. You have to issue the command verbatim exactly as it is shown. Otherwise, it won't execute. I'm not sure exactly from your concern what specific problems you're having with navigation, but I would suspect that you're not saying the commands correctly. Every feature and every section, function, or help window is totally accessible by voice command. If you can give me a specific example of one that you're having a problem with and exactly what you're saying verbatim to access it, I can probably tell you why.</p><p>"Previous window/next window" commands are erratic at best. Sometimes they work how I think they're supposed to, but most of the time they don't. "Next window" usually seems to do nothing at all and "previous window" often seems to give me the same result as "show desktop".</p><p>The only thing that I can tell you is that, in VoicePower, these commands merely mimic the "switch to" next/previous window. So, as such issuing any one of these commands has no associated window with it, it will act like the "show desktop" command. For example, if the next window is the DragonBar entry in the taskbar, then the consequent result will be the same as if you said "show desktop". On the other hand, Windows is screwy about which it considers to be the previous window or the next window. So, the problem isn't necessarily with VoicePower as much as it is with Windows itself. On the other hand, the VoicePower commands are somewhat more reliable than the standard Dragon commands for switching between Windows. This again is something that you would have to give a specific example of these commands not working properly and exactly what's in your taskbar, preferably with screenshots.</p><p>"Voice mouse is acting screwy. DNS is understanding me because the words that show up in that little box are correct. The mouse sometimes moves when I give it a command. The mouse does not move when I first say "show screen grid." It stays right where it was. In the voice mouse demo the command "move mouse 18 at 12" is given and the mouse moves to that position while the screen grid is on. I can't get it to do that. Also, while trying to select different icons on my desktop I first minimized a Word document so I could see my desktop. I gave a mouse command and the document popped back up to where it was rather than the mouse moving to the spot on the screen. The first coordinate I said was something like 20 or 30 so there's no way I could've clicked on anything in the taskbar (or at least it shouldn't have).</p><p>I thought the reason might be because of the dictation bar docked to the top of the screen. However, when I docked it to the taskbar the voice mouse still wouldn’t work. I’m at a loss."</p><p>Not being sure that I can visualize exactly the process that you're using. I tried to duplicate your problem and couldn't. The mouse voice commands seem to be acting correctly on all three of my systems (Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit, Windows 7 Home Premium 32-bit, and Windows XP SP3) under both DNS 11 and DNS 10.1 Medical.</p><p>The only thing that I can suggest is to check your mouse settings. Some of the mice software, particularly Logitech setpoint software, have options for "Enable smart move" and "Enable pointer trails". If your mouse software does have this and these are enabled, try shutting them off (disabling them). These mouse options can often wreak havoc with both Dragon and VoicePower.</p><p>It would probably be very helpful if you could give me a detailed step-by-step as to exactly what commands you executed (i.e., verbatim), in what order, and w
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Sorry for the formatting problems. I’ll try again. Can’t seem to paste directly from Word.

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Since my last post, I’ve downloaded and installed the service pack for DNS 11 (so now I have DNS 11.5). Here’s an update on 3 issues I’ve mentioned:

Unused real estate
The unused space at the bottom of my screen is now reduced for some reason – just enough space to dock the DragonBar if I so choose.

VP Help “page up/page down” commands

This seems strange to me. I can be paging up and down through a topic and these commands work fine. Then if I go work in a different application and then come back to VP help, the commands suddenly don’t work. Adding the word “show” in front of these commands is somewhat functional but not ideal. The reason is because a line of text is usually skipped when I do this (i.e. it pages up/pages down one line too far). I then have to use a "go up/go down " command to get back to where I left off reading.

DNS freezing
This happens about once a day. I have to shut DNS down using Windows Task Manager. Once I restart DNS and VP, things seem to be more or less okay. I haven’t tried creating a BestMatch III profile or looked for any invalid shortcuts, but I may do so if this keeps happening. The last time this happened to me, I don’t think Microsoft Word crashed.

[QUOTE] Since my last post, I've downloaded and installed the service pack for DNS 11 (so now I have DNS 11.5).

<p> Here's an update on 3 issues I've mentioned:</p>

<p>Unused real estate</p>
<p>The unused space at the bottom of my screen is now reduced for some reason <font face="Arial">– just enough space to dock the DragonBar if I so choose.

[/QUOTE]

<p>RJ,</p>

<p>Keep in mind that part of the displaying of windows in terms of window size and positioning is the way that VoicePower displays windows, but part of it is also the way windows stores the last size of any particular window and/or its position. One example that you will notice, over which VoicePower has no control, is attempting to place Internet Explorer in various locations, such as upper right, lower left, etc. Windows simply won't conform to this command. The same also happens with Microsoft Outlook. So, part of this is the way VoicePower places windows and part of it is the way Windows places such. Sometimes Windows won't let you resize or position windows like Internet Explorer or Microsoft Outlook, in other cases, VoicePower places windows in a manner that avoids pushing the window below the taskbar or the DragonBar, or so that the titlebar is not positioned offscreen at the top of your desktop. The reason that we try to avoid this is that once at the titlebar gets above the upper portion of your desktop, you can't issue commands to act on it. For example, if the titlebar in any particular window is not visible, DNS will not act on it, and therefore VoicePower won't either.</p>

<p>The bottom line is that it may be inconvenient at times, but it's less inconvenient than not being able to access and manipulate that window. Remember, Dragon can only act on what's visible. If text and/or controls are not visible on the screen, Dragon can't access them. If in mind that this is SAPI (Microsoft's Speech Application Program Interface), which allows Dragon to access such. Regardless, if it's not visible, it's not accessible. You can see this very simply by simply opening a document and scrolling some words off screen and then trying to select them. This is why it's called Say What You Seeâ„¢ (Tracking).</p>

<p> </p>
<p>
<p>We note this and we understand that this behavior is something that requires correction. However, since these are HTML windows, the solution is not as easy as one would think.</p>

<p>One of the things that you can do is use the scrolling feature. That is, you can say "start scrolling down", "start scrolling up", "scroll faster", "scroll slower", etc. Another thing that you can do used to try resetting the focus to the VoicePower help window by saying "put | place focus right | left | top | bottom | upper left | lower left | upper right | lower right" etc. By putting focus back into the VoicePower help window, paging should work (i.e., normal paging).</p>

<p>
</font><p>First, this may be a latency issue. That is, DNS may not be freezing, it may be paused while waiting for the RPC server or for another application to free up one of the processor cores for access by Dragon. Keep in mind that if you are running on a dual core processor, particularly one older than the Core<font face="Arial">â„¢ i first-generation and/or second generation processors, you will experience greater latency using BestMatch IV.this is why the new L3 cache is so important to the performance of DNS and why processors with only L2 cache tend to be slower performing with DNS.</font></p><font face="Arial">

</font><p>Second, BestMatch III might give you a little better performance and less latency if you're using an older Core2<font face="Arial">â„¢ Duo or dual core processor. However, if you have sufficient RAM, are running Windows 7 64-bit, and/or using one of the newer Coreâ„¢ i processors, either first or second generation, you should see less of this type of issue. If you continue to see a problem with Dragon allegedly freezing, then the problem may be related to your user profile, related to Dragon requiring a Repair, or can even be related to the application into which are dictating. It is not unheard of to have to repair Microsoft Office from time to time because of performance issues that are seemingly related to DNS, but are really related to Microsoft Office.</font></p>
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 1"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Revision"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="34" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Qat="true" Name="List Paragraph"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="29" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Qat="true" Name="Quote"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="30" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Qat="true" Name="Intense Quote"/>
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  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 3"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 3"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 3"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 4"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 4"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 4"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 4"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 4"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 4"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 4"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 4"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 4"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 4"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 4"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 4"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 4"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 4"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 5"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 5"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 5"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 5"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 5"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 5"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 5"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 5"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 5"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 5"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 5"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 5"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 5"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 5"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 6"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 6"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 6"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 6"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 6"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 6"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 6"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 6"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 6"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 6"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 6"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 6"/>
  <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" Semi="false"     UnhideWhenUsed="false

rj,</p><p>I apologize for not responding sooner. The issue that you have presented is a complex one and can be or can result from a number of causes.</p><p>I sent you a private message some time ago asking you for copy of your Dragon log. Send me an e-mail and just attach the Dragon log(s) to it. You don't need to change the file name or extension. Just attaching the file Dragon.log is fine. Send it to me at <a href="mailto:Chuck@VoiceTeach.com.The" target="_blank">Chuck@VoiceTeach.com.</a></p><p>The first thing you should take into consideration is the fact that you're using BestMatch IV on a Core2â„¢ Duo CPU running Windows 7 with 4 GB of RAM. This is an older processor that is not designed to support multithreading/multicore processing, which is what BestMatch IV is specifically designed to do. BestMatch IV is best used on systems running the newer Coreâ„¢ i first-generation and second generation processors. Also, you only have 3 MB of L2 cache. L2 cache is dedicated cache that means that each core is assigned 1.5 MB of L2 cache and the total amount of cache cannot be shared across processors. This fact alone can significantly increase latency issues. Your RAM speed is limited to 1066 MHz vs. the newer Coreâ„¢ i processors which support up to 2000 MHz. Your RAM is also DDR2 vs. DDR3. Dragon makes significant use of L2 and L3 cache, and particularly in DNS 11-11.5 the more the better. So, the bottom line is that you are somewhat handicapped from the get-go. You might be better off creating a new user profile and setting the vocabulary option to BestMatch III. Another problem with your processor is the fact that it does not make use of hyperthreading. That means that you're processor only supports two threads per processing instructions. Since BestMatch IV utilizes two cores to process your dictation, Dragon is always competing with other applications for access to one or both cores.<p>Normally you don't have to worry about the warning message relative to the fact that whatever you were dictating has been purged (DSXWarning_UttsPurged). All that means is that, for whatever reason, Dragon could not continue processing a particular utterance, whether that be dictation or a command. In most cases this is relatively harmless. Only in a very few cases does this caused Dragon to take an excessively long time to resolve and reinitialize itself. At least in one sense, this is probably what's happening to you.</p><p>Don't close DNS and VoicePower using the task manager. Closing applications and processes using the task manager is a method of last resort. It often does more harm than good, particularly with regard to DNS because DNS may be processing something. Before you use the task manager, try clicking on the VoicePower icon in using the VoicePower startup/shutdown utility. Also, if the green flame continues to spin the little rotating cursor for any length of time longer than about 15 to 30 seconds, try right clicking on the flame and selecting "Cancel Recognition". If this doesn't turn the microphone completely off, Then Try Using the VoicePower Startup/Shutdown utility to "Restart Speech". This shuts down both Dragon and VoicePower and restarts both.</p><p>Whenever you shutdown Dragon or Dragon and VoicePower, before restarting Dragon NaturallySpeaking or Dragon and VoicePower, which you should always do through the VoicePower Start up/Shutdown Utility anyway, remember that you have to close any Microsoft Office application and/or Internet Explorer. All of these applications require that Dragon be loaded first. Otherwise, you'll run into exactly the problem that you ran into with Outlook. That is, you won't be able to dictate into any Microsoft Office application and you won't have all command and control access of Internet Explorer, nor will you begin able to dictate into any text window in Internet Explorer. This is simply because you have lost all the Full Text Control (Select-and-Say) in these applications. Therefore, you need to shut these down before Dragon reloads and restart them using DNS once it is loaded with your profile open and active. With regard to Microsoft Office applications, the NatSpeak Word AddIn, NatSpeak Excel AddIn, and NatSpeak Outlook AddIn are not initialized. Particularly in Microsoft Outlook, if the NatSpeak Outlook AddIn is not initialized, you won't be able to dictate into Outlook. The silver icon in the system tray (tray) is simply an indicator that Outlook has and finish completely closing down. Until it does, you can say "open Microsoft Outlook" until the cows come home, but Microsoft Outlook won't open until the previous Outlook session is completely closed. That's what the silver icon with the X in it<br> indicates.<br>With regard to this issue, you're not experiencing latency problems. You simply shut down and restarted DNS without having shut down and restarted Microsoft Outlook or Microsoft Word. It should be obvious to you if you look at what you did that when you restarted Microsoft Word you were able to dictate, and the same thing occurred when you attempted to shut down and restart Microsoft Outlook. The slowness with which Microsoft Outlook then reloaded, is because the previous session wasn't fully closed and that had to occur first. This is not a latency issue with regard to DNS, it's an issue with Outlook itself independent of DNS.</p><p>So, here are my suggestions of things that you need to do in the order that you need to do them:</p><p>1.  Always launch Dragon first before you open any application, but particularly Internet Explorer and/or Microsoft Office applications. DNS needs to activate the Microsoft Office add-ins and it can't do it if you open any Microsoft Application before opening Dragon NaturallySpeaking. I think your to used to Windows speech Recognition (WSR). Windows Speech Recognition (WSR) is integrated into the operating system and doesn't require that it be loaded first before you launch any Microsoft Office application. DNS on the other hand does because of the way that it integrates with Microsoft Office applications and/or Internet Explorer. WordPad, notepad, and DragonPad don't require this because Full Text Control (Select-and-Say) is automatically enabled for these apps.</p><p>2.  When launching or closing down Dragon NaturallySpeaking and VoicePower, especially when VoicePower is loaded, always use the VoicePower Startup/Shutdown Utility. If you don't, you will break the link between Dragon and VoicePower and VoicePower won't work. If you close VoicePower without using the utility, you won't be able to close Dragon NaturallySpeaking. So, as long as both applications are open and running always use the VoicePower Startup/Shutdown Utility.</p><p>3.  Only use the task manager to close applications and processes as a last resort. If you shutdown natspeak.exe while Dragon is requesting Windows to write something in the background, you can corrupt your user profile. While this is rare because if Dragon freezes then nothing is being written anywhere, don't risk it. Always try the proper shutdown methods first. If the little rotating cursor is continuing to display and you have no access to the microphone or Dragon, try right clicking on the flame and selecting "Cancel Recognition" first. If that doesn't work then go to the VoicePower Startup/Shutdown Utility and try selecting "Restart Speech" first. This is the most effective way of affecting a complete restart of both Dragon NaturallySpeaking and VoicePower. If that doesn't work, for whatever reason open utility again and select "Shutdown Speech". Also, remember if you shutdown VoicePower and then restart it, you may have to wait upwards of 3 to 5 min. before VoicePower will relink with Dragon. Don't expect VoicePower to start responding immediately because it won't until Dragon reinitialize it and re-links with it.</p><p>4.  Keep in mind that because Dragon integrate so tightly with any application with which it works (hooks), particularly Microsoft Office applications and Internet Explorer, that if any of these applications crash or stop responding, it is going to directly affect DNS also. This may be one
 of the reasons why you get the continually spinning cursor around the green flame. That is, one of these applications has stopped responding and it's directly impacting on DNS.</p><p>5.  Your little utility that indicates that Offices crashed more than 30 times doesn't really tell you when and for what reason. These could be crashes over a long period of time. The problem is is that they are consistently recent and pervasive, then I would look at running a repair of Microsoft Office because the problem is most likely there. Nevertheless, if Microsoft Office applications crash while DNS is open and running, they're going to take DNS down along with it. This is simply a function of the way DNS works with Microsoft Office, or any other application for that matter. Remember again, DNS is not integrated into the operating system. Therefore, it has to integrate into the applications that you are using it with. As such, one crashing, crashes the other and vice versa.</p><p>6.  Always use the proper procedures when working with DNS and VoicePower. Always load Dragon and VoicePower first before you launch any other application. If you have to restart Dragon NaturallySpeaking and/or VoicePower, remember that you have to close any Microsoft Office application and/or Internet Explorer and reopen them otherwise you won't be able to dictate into them or your dictation will be without Full Text Control (Select-and-Say).</p><p>I await your Dragon log(s) for any further analysis and explanation.</p>

<edited><editID>Chucker</editID><editDate>2011-08-11 14:24:05</editDate></edited>

Update on DNS freezing:

I have run the Microsoft Office Diagnostics program to see if there are any problems with Office 2007. It found no problems.

I've discovered how to consistently cause DNS to crash with these 3 programs (the last few times I did this with only DNS running, not VP): Word, Outlook, and Excel. It will crash the first time I use it with any of these programs after the computer has been booted up. The Microsoft Office 2007 program I'm using DNS in will also crash. So far, the commands tested that will make it crash every time are "copy that" and "cut that". Again, this is ONLY after the computer has just been booted up/restarted. After I restart DNS and any open Microsoft Office programs, I can dictate normally; "copy that" and "cut that" commands work just fine.

Just to be sure this wasn't a latency problem relating to BestMatch IV and my system, I tried everything I described above with a BestMatch III profile as well. The results were identical.
Chuck, I'm sending those Dragon logs to you.

I forgot to add one thing. I also tried switching the order of when I started up DNS and a Microsoft Office program (thanks to Chuck’s post, I now know I should always start DNS and VP first). It didn’t seem to matter which I opened up first. I could dictate normally until I issued a “cut that” or “copy that” command. I suspect there are other commands that will make it freeze, but I haven’t found those yet…

Regarding proper shutdown of DNS and VP:

How do I get to the VoicePower Startup/Shutdown Utility manually? I only know how to get there by saying "open voice power". Left or right clicking on the VP icons at the bottom of my screen doesn't seem to give me any options to get to this utility. I've also looked through the help sections, but maybe I'm just looking in the wrong place.

I tried exiting DNS by right clicking on the DNS icon and then clicking "Exit Dragon", but Dragon was unresponsive.
Hopefully I didn't mess anything up by using the task manager to exit these programs. Thus far, this is the only way I figured out that will allow me to shut down DNS and VP after it's stuck. On a few occasions, I've even had to use it to shut down Outlook and Word after they got locked up with DNS and wouldn't shut down through the normal means.
rj2011-08-11 22:21:59

rj,

As long is VoicePower is loaded and linked to Dragon, you can't exit Dragon NaturallySpeaking as you've found out.

To shutdown Dragon NaturallySpeaking and VoicePower or to restart Dragon NaturallySpeaking and VoicePower when you can't say "open VoicePower", simply double-click on the shortcut on the desktop. This is the same as saying "open VoicePower". The Startup/Shutdown Utility will, and display the options "Restarts Speech", "Shutdown Speech", or "Shutdown VoicePower". You also have the option to Cancel. You should always use this utility to shutdown Dragon and/or VoicePower, or to Restart both. Just to reiterate, when you say "open VoicePower" this is the same as double-clicking on the VoicePower shortcut on the desktop. You can't right-click on the VoicePower icon in the system tray to do this.

I was
using Internet Explorer 9 today without having opened Dragon NaturallySpeaking
and on a whim decided to see if it would behave like Microsoft Office if I
tried using a “copy that” command. So, I started up Dragon
NaturallySpeaking and VoicePower (I know this is the wrong order but I figured
it wouldn’t hurt to see what happens). I dictated a word into a search bar on
the MSN site and then selected that word with “select that”. No
problem so far. Then I said “copy that” and, you guessed it, Dragon
NaturallySpeaking froze.

<p style=“margin: 0in 0in 10pt;” =“Msonormal”><?: prefix = o ns = “urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office” /><o:p>

</font><span style='font-family: "Times New Roman","serif";'><font size="3">I
restarted speech by manually clicking on the VoicePower icon on my desktop.
(Chuck, thanks for telling me how to do this without using the task manager!) After
I restarted Internet Explorer, "copy that" commands worked okay. Then
I restarted my computer and opened up Dragon NaturallySpeaking and VoicePower
first, and then opened Internet Explorer. I did the exact same thing as I did
in the paragraph above and got the exact same result. So, my tentative conclusion
is that this problem is not just a Microsoft Office/Dragon NaturallySpeaking
problem. Rather, it's a Windows/Dragon NaturallySpeaking problem? Chuck, I'll
send you those Dragon log files as well.</font></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;" ="Msonormal"><font size="3">

</font></o:p></span></p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">

</font>
rj,

I've looked through your Dragon log and There is nothing inherent in there that would predispose Dragon to crash when issuing those commands, particularly Re: 11.5.

My suggestion would be to run a Repair of DNS 11.5 and see if that fixes the problem. You may be experiencing subtle corruption of the program files, which can occur from time to time when installing a new application or even when installing a service pack.

Let me know if this fixes the problem.

Also, can you explain for me in a little more detail exactly what happens when you say that issuing those commands causes DNS to crash? Sometimes basic descriptions are too vague.
Chucker2011-08-14 09:13:21

rj,

Your new Dragon log shows a number of issues. From what I can see it looks as though you may have a corrupted user profile. The reason why DNS appears to freeze is that it is repeatedly attempting to resolve an utterance and timing out. When it gets to the end of that, you end up getting an RPC_Server Unavailable 1722 error which means that Dragon can't complete when it started because the RPC server is not accessible. This is most often due to the fact that whatever is using the RPC server is unable to unregister itself and us relinquish control back to the requesting application. In this case, it is Dragon.

Try creating a new user profile. Don't train it, don't add any vocabulary to it in notepad any of your Text and Graphics macros (i.e., mycmds.dat) if you've created any.

Try that new, pristine profile and see if the same problem persists. If so, let me know.

Okay, I just created a new profile. I didn't allow it to scan any of my documents on my computer, and I didn't do any training. Then I tested it out to make sure it could actually dictate in a Word document. It seemed to do okay, although I'm finding the accuracy isn't quite as good (probably because I didn't do any training). "Cut that" commands work fine.

Then I restarted my computer and opened up the same profile. I opened up a Word document and dictated a line or two. I then selected some text with my voice (no problems here) and said "cut that". And again, Dragon NaturallySpeaking became unresponsive/frozen. Dragon NaturallySpeaking correctly understood my command because those two words stayed in that little blue recognition box. When I say that Dragon NaturallySpeaking freezes (and this applies in Microsoft Word, Microsoft Outlook, Microsoft Excel and Windows Internet Explorer), I mean that I can no longer use speech to control my computer or dictate anything. I think the longest I ever waited before I restarted speech was about 30 min. During this time that I cannot use speech to operate my computer, the green microphone icon appears to be getting sound input. In other words, the little soundwave looking thing at the top left of the green microphone icon stays there. When Dragon NaturallySpeaking is working properly this soundwave looking thing is only on that microphone icon when I am speaking. I don't remember seeing the little green flame of Dragon NaturallySpeaking anywhere on the screen (except in the taskbar of course). The blue recognition box still had "cut that" in it, so I'm guessing that's why I never saw the green flame after Dragon NaturallySpeaking froze.

After restarting Dragon NaturallySpeaking and Microsoft Word (Microsoft Word did not close down normally. The words "not responsive" appeared several times while I was trying to close it down.), I can now dictate and use "cut that" commands with no problem.

I'll send you my Dragon log files of this occurrence.

DNS freezing

Two things happened to me today that haven't happened before. The first is that I tried to resize a pane in Microsoft Outlook by dragging it with the mouse. I was able to begin moving the pane edge just fine using Dragon NaturallySpeaking's mouse commands. However, once it started dragging it wouldn't stop even though Dragon NaturallySpeaking recognized the fact that I issued the "stop" command. Dragon NaturallySpeaking was unresponsive to any of my voice commands at this point. Thankfully, manually pressing the escape key stopped it from dragging and I was again able to use my voice to operate the computer. I then intentionally tried to do all of this again and the same thing happened.

The second thing was at the end of the day when I was going to close down Outlook. I put the focus on Outlook and said "close window" a number of times. Finally it appeared I had successfully closed Outlook. And then I noticed the dreaded silver Outlook icon as well as the green Dragon NaturallySpeaking microphone icon that supposedly was processing my speech even though I wasn't saying anything (had that soundwave looking thing in the top left-hand corner). After waiting for a few minutes I eventually gave up and restarted speech with the VoicePower utility and shut down Outlook via the task manager. I found this strange because when I restart Dragon NaturallySpeaking after it crashes the first time (after I issue a "copy that" or "cut that" command for example) it generally is fine for the rest of the day.

Chuck, I'll send you my Dragon log for today and the bit of recognition history that coincides with the mouse dragging problem. Oh, today I was using a BestMatch III profile that I had trained but hadn't used very much.

DNS freezing



When I started up my computer today the first program I opened after Dragon NaturallySpeaking was WordPad (I didn’t open VoicePower). I dictated a couple lines, selected a word with my voice and then said “cut that”. Dragon NaturallySpeaking again became unresponsive. After waiting for about 5 min., I tried to close down Dragon NaturallySpeaking by right clicking on the microphone icon and then clicking exit Dragon. This didn’t work. Then I tried double-clicking on the Dragon NaturallySpeaking shortcut on my desktop. This didn’t work either. Finally, I clicked on the VoicePower icon on my desktop. This eventually worked, and now I can operate the computer with my voice. So, Dragon NaturallySpeaking will become unresponsive (such that I need to restart it) every time I restart my computer and issue a “cut that/copy that” command in Word, Excel, Outlook, Internet Explorer and WordPad (haven’t actually tested “copy that” in WordPad, but I’m guessing it will…).

rj,

<p>I sent a copy of your Dragon log and my Dragon log showing the same entries that are causing your system to stop responding. I won't get any feedback on these until Monday at the earliest. However, it looks like a combination of Dragon and your hardware<font face="Arial">. I'm looking for a confirmation of my suspicions via Dragon development.</font></p><font face="Arial">

</font><p>I don't recall whether you posted or I didn't ask you, but what is your microphone/soundcard combination?</p><font face="Arial"></font>


<edited><editID>Chucker</editID><editDate>2011-08-20 16:41:33</editDate></edited>